Whitley Strieber; Dead Man Walking?

I see from my sources that Mr. Whitley Streiber felt it was necessary, once again, to tell lies about me despite the fact that I have not been a poster at his site for almost two years now.

What is it he is so afraid of?

Obviously it is something other than physical violence on my part, since after the debacle involving his banning me from the messsage board for having the audacity to have an opinion about the odd circumstances and exotic explanations surrounding the death of the infamous Harvard abduction-psychiatrist John Mack, he then banned me from entering his website because someone in his chatroom mistook something I said for literal when I was employing a metaphor ...and yet even after I immediately cleared that up via e-mail and let him know I was not threat to him, he still continues today to insist (LIE) that I literally threatened his life.

To show you just how much of a confabulator he is, here is his recent posting on his website regarding his justification for banning some people who happen to also have opinions that he finds threatening, followed by a reference to me and the malicious slander he insists on spewing about me "threatening him." I then paste in my e-mail response to him, which he received as evidenced by his return response. This should open a few eyes as to his deliberate and continued public campaign to invalidate myself and my own personal claims as he has done from just about day one when I began posting on his message board in the "When There Is A Witness Thread..."

Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007; 2:35 pm

"Susano,  Lab Rat and Patricia are off this board.
The whole issue of close encounter is  still in
question, and we need to approach it in a way that
encourages  discussion and the
exchange of information. 

That was not happening here, and my previous warnings
to be more accepting of  the opinions of others were
not heeded, in my opinion. 

This is not an 'admin' decision. My administrator is
instructed only to ban  those who directly violate our
posting rules, and that
instruction stands. 

This is the second time that I have taken this sort
of action, in the history of my board. The first was
against a poster styled as OneSmartRat, who  threatened
my life in my subscriber section chatroom. 
The log containing the  threat was turned
over to the appropriate authorities."

My past e-mail response directly to Strieber on this matter:

Date:	Sun, 2 Jan 2005 09:48:29 -0800 (PST)
From:	""OSR""
Subject:	Send Complete Text
To:	boardadministrator@unknowncountry.com

wstrieber;

Never did I or anyone else here using this URL make any such statement intended to be taken as an actual threat. In fact I do not recall making any such statement at all, unless it was part of a broader dialogue and context; said in jest or obvious metaphor within the context I was discussing at that time. Any real threat would have obviously been taken as such by the other chat room participants and reported; obviously no one did by your own admission, therefore your justification here is truly secondary and false to your actions against me and further demonstrates your primary motive is based on discriminatory behavior because of your personal anomosity towards me out of you disdain of my personal views and opinions.

Please send the complete text to which you refer or I will pursue legal redress for the discrimination issues at hand and now retaliatory termination of my subscribership.

How any reasonable person could possibly imagine an actual bullet being fired through cyberspace into "Mr. Strieber's head" is really beyond any commonly accepted notions of rational thinking. This would be funny if it wasn't so sad a reflection on your obvious personal insecurity. I can only imagine that you are either a far more severe pathological liar then I first thought, or, you have deliberately taken some metaphorical or obviously symbolic reference and, once again, deliberately twisted what I said OUT OF CONTEXT to your own personal ends. Ends which apparently involve making sure that people like me with beliefs and opinions threatening to your own are not heard or believed in your public forum. It is surely clear to me, as well as many others now, that I am a threat to you, but it is more than evident at this point that the threat has never been, and is not now, a physical one, and ofcourse you know that as well.

As a matter of documented record, I had another poster on your message board threaten to "give me a near death experience" and when that was reported to the "board administrator" (you) you chose to ignore it. Once again, during this same time period, you targetted only me for your so-called application of the "civil rules" because you had already singled me out because of my "controversial" views. ALL of what I claim is documented in the archives of which I have a full copy, as do several others who were witnesses to this discriminatory treatment in real time as it was unfolding.

What exactly are you so afraid of anyway? Is is the truth about me, or the truth about yourself that terrrifies you more?

Since you are now using it as a basis to now discontinue my subscribership, please send copy of full text you have referred to in your opening remark here to me via this e-mail address to prove your absurd claim.

I still expect an answer to my letter, that was e-mailed BEFORE you decided to block my access to the site, obviously negating your excuse of some life threatening remark as you state is the reason for your action...which came AFTER I sent you my complaint.

My letter of complaint addresses discriminatory treatment extending much farther back in time than your latest excuse to deny my subscriber benefits, and it was written and sent BEFORE your latest action. I will not accept any cancellation of my subscribership or partial refund of dues paid as a satifactory resolution since this behavior towards me predates these latest events and does not address the bulk of my complaint and you have never responded to past complaints or inquiries on this matter. Instead of resolving this matter, your action now escalates it into an issue now compounding the original complaint that now includes retaliatory actions against me for making my complaint to you and asking for redress.

Funny, if that excuse given above was the reason, my URL was not blocked until after I mailed my complaint or that I still had access to the subscriber's section and even the chat room, UNTIL I signed in as onesmartrat this evening and was suddenly bounced out.

Does it feel good to silence anybody with a story or opinion that doesn't agree with your own?

How frightened you are of words that you manipulate them into use as weapons against others.

[The rest of letter deleted as it concerns legal issues]



His response:

Strieber wrote:

The statements of a user from your ISP address were
the subject of complaints from other users, which we
have on file. This website is private property. It
offers public access under conditions which the said
user violated. Therefore, access was withdrawn. Any
user at that ISP who had purchased a subscription has
been refunded.


Just so you all understand the context within this supposed
"death threat" took place was within the chatroom section of his
website.

I had been in conversation with some others and was conveying my
interest in debating Mr. Strieber once and for all in an open public
forum such as the chatroom, since he had previously been in there
to "chat" with people, however, I had missed the event.

What I basically said was that if he (Strieber) were "here" I would
"put a bullet in his head" in the same sense that the French employ
the term "Coup de grace."

This term is often used to apply to a variety of other metaphorical
contexts rather the literal meaing from which it derives as
"an act of mercy" in a war theatre or direct combat.

In my context, I was simply using the term to imply how I might
intellectually/verbally vanquish his delusions regarding the whole
abduction phenomenon and, at the same time, end his own
personal misery (and everyone else's) by giving him the
"Coup de grace" ...of an ideological "death" NOT a physical one.

From Whikpedia:

Coup de grâce;

The expression coup de grâce (pronounced /ku də gra/) (French: /ku də ɡʁas/ "blow of mercy") means a death blow intended to end the suffering of a wounded creature. It is often used figuratively to describe the last of a series of events which brings about the end of some entity; for example: "The business had been ailing for years; the coup de grâce which brought it to its knees was the sudden jump in oil prices."

In war times, it means shooting into the cardiac or temporal region of an already shot, but not yet dead person during a military or civilian execution. It can also refer to the final destruction of an already sinking ship; during World War II, ships crippled beyond repair were often finished off by their own escorts, or by enemy submarines. Examples include the USS Wasp and USS Lexington.

In a classic duel to the death, if a person is wounded and not likely to recover, a coup de grâce is performed.

The French pronunciation of the phrase is [ku də gras], but English speakers sometimes mispronounce it as [ku de'gra]. Not pronouncing the final "c" is an example of a hyperforeignism: in French, this mispronunciation sounds like coup de gras, which means "a blow of fat."

Since Mr. Strieber refused to send me the full text of what he claimed he "sent to the proper authorities"(a claim I also find suspect, by the way), I cannot paste in the relevant portions of that chatroom conversation in question.

It became quickly obvious to me that the individual or individuals who read my text at that time might very well have misinterpreted the initial phrase line..."If Strieber was here ...I would put a bullet in his head." When I said "here" I, of course, meant the chatroom, however, I think that whomever complained mistook "here" for "in person" (in my presence) instead, and thus completely mistook the metaphor for the literal.

What I can tell you is that Mr. Strieber, a professional writer with a background with which one might refer to as a 'classical education,' most certainly could easily make such a distinction and recognize the error or interpretation on the complainer's part. But instead, he chooses to play this game of taking things said out of context and TWISTING AND DISTORTING WORDS AND IDEAS TO MEET HIS OWN PERSONAL AGENDA.

And that is the classic defintion of disinformation.

That Mr. Whitley Streiber would like you all to think that his life is "in danger" from the likes of me when, in fact, he knows that to be a false presumption on his part, knowing full well, as evidenced from my prompt e-mail to him on the matter and assurances that I was indeed not intending physical harm towards him, should tell you all something about his lack of Intellectual honesty regarding what is fact and what is fiction. He seems to be almost pathologically driven to deliberately infuse fact with whatever fiction suits his purpose and further his own agenda at any given point in time.

He is a master of words, and to this end, he employs them as virtual weapons of mass distortion ...and subsequent destruction when he uses them as he has to defame and invalidate me or anyone like me who tells a story different than the one he insists on ...and to use character assassination as a means to silence our message.

(Which, incidentally, is a classic Intel MO).

And, after all, Whitley Strieber has made himself a reputation (and a better-than-average living) as a noted author of primarily fiction novels.

And that alone, would seem to me to be just cause for re-evaluating Strieber's claims in regard to everything else he has said to be "true" and authentic within the same fact vs. fiction criteria and parameters to which he seems to be constantly blurring ...as in his own case against me here, most assuredly.

Perhaps, Mr. Strieber's life IS in danger. In my opinion, ALL Monarch Multiples-Alien Abductees live under constant threat of death ...both at the hands of others ...and quite possibly themselves.

In that regard, we are all "dead man walking."

-OSR

Whitley Strieber is a Mossad Asset

Well, it didn't surprise me much when I got a phone call today from a friend informing me that Whitley Strieber had banned a whole group of individuals, mostly long-time PAYING customers to his website, because they were engaged in informative and revealing discussions, based in part on ongoing personal eye-witness testimony from survivors, on Monarch Mind Control.

After all, Strieber himself is perfect example of a Monarch Mind Control Survivor.

And as such, he is also an Israeli Intelligence asset, as are all Monarch Multiples.

How can I make this claim?

Very easily. It is that the genesis of the entire 'alien abduction' saga lies in ...Genesis. Well, also in Exodus as well as the rest of the Bible; Old Testament, of course.

It is because the origins of Monarch Slavery lay there as well. I know, I was one of their high-end slaves ...and along with the physical, mental, and emotional torture, mind control programming and belief-conditioning I received, I was privy to their own history of who they really are and from whence they came; The Cult, that is...

And who is The Cult?

Well, they call themselves Moriah.

I will let that last statement stand for the moment without further explanation as I was not really prepared for this kind of post this afternoon. I have been absent from this blog for reasons which no doubt will soon become apparent as soon as I go to post this piece.

Right now, I intend to open up a disscussion on the recent debacle at Strieber's site and invite all those who have been unfairly, unjustly, ejected from that site, and anyone else who wishes to, use the comment section in this post to talk about whatever they feel would be relevant to what has just occurred over at the UC site.

You are all welcome here.

I shall continue my discourse along similar lines of thought at another time.

Pro Libertate!

-OSR

Confessions of an Intergenerational Occult Ritual Abuse Suvivor and "Bloodline" Programmed "Monarch" Multiple

Here's some links ...and then there is this interview ...it's just so damn obvious ...anyone who recognizes the structure of his experiences as he speaks about them will be genuinely convinced from reading this particular interview ... it's just so classic Cult-based trauma-conditioned "Monarch" Dissociated Identity Disorder ...he is textbook case ...I mean, anyone who has any amount of experience at all with this subject, in terms of Cult-based MC, can just read through the interview and see it almost immediately.

I hadn't planned on posting this ....but the interview is so revealing and compelling ...and just adds to my case, lol. Well, here it is ...decide for yourselves.


-OSR

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitley_Strieber

http://www.rense.com/general30/stmem.htm

Whitley Streiber and The Toronto Experience

By Sean Casteel

Whitley Strieber, the renowned abductee and author of the groundbreaking bestseller "Communion" (1987) and its sequels, "Transformation" (1988), "Breakthrough" (1995), "The Secret School" (1996), "The Communion Letters" (1997, which Strieber edited along with his wife Anne) and "Confirmation" (1998), manages to just keep those hits coming. In the story of his ongoing experiences with the Visitors and other strangers, a new chapter has been written that Strieber feels is the most important so far.

Strieber had an experience on June 6, 1998, while he was on tour promoting his latest book "Confirmation," that he feels is extraordinary enough to build an entire book around-an encounter with a mysterious figure who knocked on his hotel room door and then gave Strieber the total blueprint for mankind's evolution.There was so much crucial information packed into a half hour of discussion with the odd visitor that Strieber has no doubt that his memory of the encounter will yield sufficient material to sustain a book-length telling of the story.

In the Personal Journal section of his "Communion Foundation" web site, Strieber has written a brief summary of the hotel room encounter in which he talked about how his encounters with the Visitors had slowed down to nothing for a long period of time.

"It had been twenty months since my last encounter," he wrote. "When we lost our cabin in upstate New York, my thrilling life of weekly and even daily encounters ended. I grew angry. I became bereft.

"Then I pulled myself together and went on with my work," he continued. "I had completely given up the idea of ever having another encounter when I had the best, the most incredible, the most stupendous encounter of my life. It was truly a marvel, and it has left me in a kind of spiritual whirlwind. What an extraordinary event."

When a source like Strieber speaks in those kinds of superlatives, there surely must have been some kind of significant event that merits the use of words such as "incredible" and "stupendous." We spoke to Strieber by phone about this June 6 visitation that so fills him with wonder and awe, and, as usual, we did not come away disappointed. This most recent story Strieber has to tell involves not only the future physical and mental evolution of mankind, but the salvation of our souls as well.

Q. What had happened was that you were in a hotel room in Canada? Strieber: In Toronto.

Q. And you were awakened in the middle of the night? Strieber: By someone knocking on the door.

Q. Do you want to just tell me the story? Start from the beginning-

Strieber: Yeah. It's a really simple story just in terms of factual material. I was totally asleep. It was the last night of my author's tour. And in the middle of the night, it was about three, there was a knocking on the door. It woke me up. And for some reason, what popped into my head was the thought that I had fallen asleep leaving the room service man standing at the door for hours. Why I thought that, I just cannot imagine.

It's like the thought was planted in my head by somebody because it was such an exceptionally stupid thought. I mean, why would that ever cross my mind? I rushed to the door. I said, "I'm terribly sorry. I fell asleep." I threw the door open and this man walked into the room. He was smaller than I was by a significant amount, to where the first thought that might have even crossed my mind was that he was a child. He looked old. He was maybe four foot eight to five feet tall at most. I then had a remarkable conversation with this man. I've put some information about it in the journal part of my web site. And I'm going to write a whole book based on this. The time we were together, it was just incredible. I didn't have the impression at all that he was an alien, although I don't know what that really means anymore. He certainly didn't look like anything except a human being.

But the things he said were just extraordinary and said with such authority and knowledge. There were also words that he would use that now, looking back, I don't know those words. I just remember them as kind of gravely sounds. I don't know what they were. But these words contained huge amounts of information.

It was a really strange experience. And an extraordinary one. After he left, I still didn't know who he was. But I do know that he was a person in possession of the most incredible knowledge that I've ever encountered in my life about the meaning of mankind. Where we came from, where we're going, what's happening to us and why.

Q. Yeah, that's what I was told-that he imparted to you a great deal of meaningful information.

Strieber: Yes, he did. The thing is that every word he said seemed to have attached to it thousands of ideas. And I have in my head now the contents. I mean, it's like having the contents of somebody else's mind in your own mind. Or at least part of it. It's amazing stuff. It's about a totally new way of living, a whole new way of being human. And how we can reach this, and how the conditions of the future are going to be such that we will be able to reach this.

It wasn't a pleasant experience because the conditions under which the changes are going to take place in us are very hard conditions. But I did have the impression, and this was very powerful, that the present time is as important in terms of the evolution of consciousness and life on this planet as was the moment when living creatures first walked up out of the sea. This is a moment of equal or greater importance in the history of the Earth.

Q. So he spoke to you with a dense sort of language-

Strieber: Well, it was English, most of it. He had no particular accent. He could have been American or Canadian. He didn't sound English or have a foreign accent of any kind.

Q. And the information was compressed somehow.

Strieber: Well, it was like every word had ideas attached to it that are now in my head.

Q. Like he subliminally fed you information or something?

Strieber: Well, I don't know how to express it. Like the words were words that somehow unlocked something in my mind. I'm not real sure what that all means. But there's just vast amounts of information. I've been waiting, sort of having it kind of percolate around in my head.

Q. Are you writing it out as it occurs to you?

Strieber: No. I'm getting ready to write it. I wrote notes that night, and I have the notes. I have some other notes I wrote and sent to my editor a few days later. And since then, I've been sort of waiting. Because I've found that waiting is important in dealing with this kind of experience properly. You can't jump on it, because if you do jump on it, then you get all mixed up. At least I do. And I get into the problem of having my imagination fill in the blanks, and I don't want that. So I've just been waiting. I'm getting ready to start writing soon.

Q. Well, he was telling you that this is an unusually critical time in human evolution, in human history?

Strieber: Extremely critical.

Q. Does that accord with the apocalyptic view?

Strieber: Yeah, it does. It's not exactly an apocalyptic view, but mankind is in a crucible and it's getting heated up. We're going to go through something quite fierce over the next fifty to one hundred years. The new millennium is going to begin hard. I didn't have any impression that we were going to go extinct or anything, but I think we're going to get bruised. We're going to get knocked about the head and shoulders by the laws of nature.

Q. Do you remember telling me at one point that being in the Visitors' presence in a conscious waking state is simply awful?

Strieber: Yeah. That's why I say at the beginning of this that I didn't have the impression that he was an alien. Because I didn't feel that sense at all. It was a very normal conversation, except toward the end when he said some things that took me back to when I was a child. And I guess I must have had a conversation with him or someone like him at that time. Because I felt like I was nine-years-old again, sitting on the foot of my bed with my legs crossed and talking to somebody. That was really startling because it was very vivid.

This happened to me once before. On the morning when I went down into my woods ten years ago. You probably know this story. As I came back up, there were these cries that came out of the woods. I couldn't go all the way down. Because I knew they were down there and I mean by this the regular Visitors. There was this horrible voice going off in my head saying, "C'mon, c'mon." It was so mean and tough that it scared me. I felt like I was going to be kidnapped and never brought back. So I returned to the house and when I put my hand on the door knob, there were these three cries from down in the woods that were the most extraordinary sounds I've ever heard in my life to this day.

They were the richest and most incredibly ambiguous sounds. They were either full of love-either the longing of a disappointed lover-or a disappointed predator. I couldn't tell which. But then I went back up into my room, and this spirit seemed to sweep in with me. It took me back to the moment in my childhood when I first walked. So vividly, it was as if I relived it.

Q. I remember reading that in the Communion Foundation newsletter. You could smell your mother's sheets and the ironing-

Strieber: Everything. It was like being in the room again. It was just extraordinary. And with this being, it felt like I was nine again during my last few seconds of talking to this man.

But you know, I thought to myself later, could I have been talking to a member of some sort of secret society who had a lot of knowledge, some sort of inner-world person or something? He was as human as you and me. Very obviously. He could maybe be a human being who lived in other worlds, or higher realms or something. Or maybe he was an angel or something. I don't know. But I do know that he gave me the task of producing this document. And I can do it. I am definitely able to do it. And will it be my last book? I don't know. But it would certainly be a fitting book to end my career with, that's for sure.

Q. Something that lays out the total plan and accurately foretells what's up there?

Strieber: Yeah. Well, I'm pretty confident in my ability to foretell things. My prognostications have been pretty on the money for a long time now. So I'm confident that when I do do that, that it has a level of accuracy.

Q. So you don't want to give us any details at this point? Are you saving that for-

Strieber: Well, it's not a question of saving it. I know it's in my head but I couldn't access it at the moment. I have to start writing it out from the beginning, and then it will come out in order. But I couldn't dip into it now. I wouldn't be able to do that. It's not possible. But I do know it's there.

I can say one thing. That the book is primarily about a new kind of human self and a new way of being human. And the context in which it begins is a retelling of the past that is true, that enables us to begin by knowing who we were and who we have been. And to therefore be able to make steps into the future with a clear understanding of where we have come from. An understanding we do not presently possess.

Q. So it's like a detailed blueprint of the transformation that we're all going through? Streiber: Exactly. And it's a very physical thing. In the end of this, the body of man is going to be transformed. Not just the mind of man or the spirit of man. It's not a mind/body or spirit/body-there's no spirit/body bifurcation. This looks upon the body and mind and spirit as all one thing. So that instead of an out-of-body experience, you might be able to just plain fly, as far as I can tell.

Q. Well, you also talk about that concept in "The Wolfen," the idea that the mind changes the body. The force of the soul acting on the body allows you to-

Strieber: Yes, well it's something similar to that. I didn't realize that I'd talked about that in "The Wolfen," but now that you mention it, I guess I must have.

Q. So is there more to the story?

Strieber: This was about the most exciting thing that ever happened to me in my life that I can ever remember. It was more incredible than any close encounter I've ever had. There was no sense of chaos, and it wasn't too brief. It was prolonged.

Q. A prolonged discussion-

Strieber: A discussion, yeah. Q. Where you were physically comfortable-

Strieber: Yes. I was sitting on the foot of my bed and-

Q. Mentally alert?

Strieber: Absolutely. And there was none of the physical and mental weirdness that's connected with being with the Visitors at all. He was part of our world, let me put it that way. Whether he flies around in a spaceship or not, I don't know. But he certainly was part of our world.

Q. Are you familiar with the Shaver mysteries at all? Richard Shaver's claim back in the 50s about people living inside the Earth?

Strieber: Not specifically, but I am familiar with that idea. There was a book I saw about that some years ago. That's a theory that's been around. There was a little bit of my early experiences that involved caves and going underground. There's a whole subculture of conspiracy theorists who believe there's a kind of government living underground. So I'm very familiar with that.

Q. The idea is that these people, the Dero or the Terot or whatever name Shaver-

Strieber: Dero? That word rings a faint bell. Yes, I guess I am familiar with that. Q. That they would come out of their hiding place inside the Earth from time to time and interact with people.

Strieber: It would be depressing as hell. It would be so depressing to me to be down there all the time. I don't know if that sounds very believable. This guy, he was an ordinary man. He was just rather compact. He wasn't huge.

Q. Could you describe his clothing?

Strieber: Yeah. It was black, dark clothing. A suit with a jacket that was buttoned up to the collar and a pair of dark pants. He was sort of normal. I can't remember too much detail about the style of his clothing because I was really riveted to what he was saying and by interacting with him. And the fun of it. It was terribly fun. It wasn't a pleasant conversation, but it was exhilarating to have this happening. I was very well aware at the time of how extremely unusual the whole experience was. And he kept sort of giggling almost because he was, too. He was almost laughing at the idea that I was obviously so excited. And yet at the same time, the things he was talking about were really intense.

There was one thing that was fairly extraordinary. He told me the date of my death. And he said, "But you must keep this a secret, because if you tell anyone, then it is possible that it will change." And that is very true. Because if I told that and it became public knowledge, maybe someone would decide to change it just to prove me wrong. You know, and blow my brains out. So it was a very interesting thing. But I've had that happen before. I was told the day of my death by the Visitors sometime ago and the day came and passed and I didn't die. So whether that is something to be believed or not, I don't know.

In other words, when he told me the day of my death, he really told me nothing. Because I've been told that, and it turned out not to be true. I lived for years expecting to die on that day and it came and went and was a perfectly ordinary day. I didn't even skip a beat.

Q. I've heard of that kind of thing before. I remember reading an advertisement by a psychic who claimed he could tell you the day of your death. That was all he could tell you. That was his one little talent for making psychic predictions.

Strieber: Oh, man.

Q. I tend to hope that if we're going through a transformation, it's one that involves physical immortality.

Strieber: I don't know about that, but I do know that it's a transformation of the body. It's physical.

Q. But it's all coming out eventually in a new book?

Strieber: Yes. It was very specific. He even gave me the title. I can't give it to you, but he gave me the title and he made me write it down.

Q. I'm sure you're familiar with George Adamski.

Strieber: Vaguely. I'm not terribly interested in that stuff. I've always assumed he was a charlatan until I read Michael Hesseman's book, which has not yet been published, about the history of UFOs. And he points out some things about Adamski which suggest that he may not have been entirely a charlatan. But did something similar happen to him?

Q. Well, he claims to have met some beautiful blonde Venusians, both male and female, pretty much the Nordic type aliens, who gave him dire warnings about the future of mankind, especially about nuclear warfare and so forth. It was always debated whether or not Adamksi was telling the truth, but he was the first real contactee.

Strieber: Yeah, I have read that. And I feel this whole thing is a very uneasy thing to do because of that stuff. And there's always, always, in the back of my mind, now that it's a memory, and it's not really happening at this moment, did it happen at all? That is something that never, ever leaves me. Because when you're dealing with something this strange, and this intense, could it be that I had an extremely intense dream? But if I did, then the material imparted to me seems to have still come from a really sterling source. Because of its vitality and its excellence and its newness.

So even if that's the case, I think it's still valid. That's why I felt I would begin to talk about it. Because whether the guy was really there or not-I mean, it's a memory right now, just like my last memory of being in my apartment in Texas. It seems no more or less valid than any ordinary memory. But the strangeness of what happened makes me keep it in question anyway. Do you see what I mean?

Q. Yeah, right. I guess you'll always have to second-guess yourself to some extent. Strieber: To some extent, you have to, yes.

Q. Until the phenomenon comes out in the open.

Strieber: Yeah. I'll tell you another interesting thing about this man. He was often seen in the woods around our house in upstate New York. Both by the kids, and by some workmen who actually left the job they were on there, because they saw him and they perceived him as an alien. And the foreman of the group came up and said, "Mr. Strieber, look, one of those aliens was just out there with us. He was watching us and he just ran past us across the driveway there. We're leaving. We don't want anything to do with that."

And I said, "Could you describe this?" And he described the same thing. A small man with a very angular face dressed in dark clothes running through the woods. And when the kids saw him, he used to carry a little black briefcase. The kids would see him all the time. Andrew, my son, remembers it very well. In other words, he was not a figure of the imagination. He was someone who was there a lot, running around in the woods.

Q. You were saying that even if the experience was not real, somehow the information imparted to you was still valid?

Strieber: I feel so, yes. I feel the information comes from a higher level even if the experience wasn't a physically real one.

Q. Dreams are often used as a medium to communicate with mortals, I suppose.

Strieber: Yeah, I think often. Anyway, the fact that it's so similar to the person in the room, I think it probably was a physical experience. But I still have to second-guess that whole experience. I think it's my responsibility to do that.

Q. Well, Hynek said that at one point too, that after all his years of study and devotion to the subject, he still had to leave a little space in his mind for the possible unreality of it. Strieber: Yeah, well, exactly. You have to leave some space in your mind for that.

Q. Your mind would just snap if you had to comprehend the total truth of it all at once.

Strieber: Yes. There's a similar pattern in a way. There was this person in the woods up there who I saw who used to-he was like a child. I mentioned him in "Breakthrough." I saw him sitting under a tree, and I went up to him, and he made a growling sound. It scared me so bad that I ran all the way back to the house. And I've found places where I've found weird things in the woods. Like a little basket-type thing that had been made of twigs. It was so skillfully woven together, it looked like a woven basket, even though it was made of windfalls and twigs. It was just amazing. It had old, sort of discarded children's toys in it, and there were also lots of cigarette butts in it. This little creature or person used to smoke all the time. He was constantly smoking.

Now you would think that that was all sort of strangely dreamlike. And it had a very dreamlike quality to it, but then we moved down to San Antonio. The neighbors began to complain that there was this strange, like eleven-year-old child who smoked constantly and was climbing up the walls of the condo and stuff. There were very strange complaints coming in about this kid, to where people called the Social Services in San Antonio to say that there was this child who was being left to run wild.

Then we noticed there was someone standing in a little corner beside our condo. They would be standing about three feet from the head of my bed, but outside. We could see that they'd been standing there all night because we could see all these cigarette butts lying there. So we put in a motion sensitive light to drive them away from that corner, and everyone said it was this kid who used to stand out there and smoke. They used to see him standing there in the night. Then the condo behind us, it turned out, was being lived in by squatters who didn't belong there.

So the lady who owned it got the sheriff to clean the squatters out. This kid apparently was involved with them, because the day the squatters left, I was working in my little garden there, and suddenly this person-I had never laid eyes on this kid before-comes bursting around the corner of the building and goes starting off down the street. It was the same person who had been in my woods. The same blonde kid. I mean the same exact person. Even walked the same. And he goes off down the street and has never been seen again. Then they went in to clean that condo out, and they found that the place was dirty and filthy and full of M & Ms and pennies. Now you put that in your pipe and smoke it. I'm telling you, that is a weird story.

Q. It is.

Strieber: But do you see how it turns out that something that I would have kept questioning because it was just so weird turned out to have a totally physical reference? In other words, there was really somebody there. And in this case, the person the kids used to see in the woods is sort of the reverse. I mean they just took it as a person. The thing I'm trying to get at here is that I keep these things in question because I think it's the responsible thing to do. But in this particular case, I would be very surprised if that man wasn't as real as you and me.

There are things about this experience that imply that we don't see the complete world. That there are parts of the world that we're blind to, and that there are people living in those parts of the world that are not like us. They know more than we do. They live on a bigger scale than we do.

But there's something about some of them that's completely sinister and terrible, like that supposed eleven-year-old kid. When I saw him up close in my woods, you know what he looked like? Not like a child, but like someone whose body had quit maturing when they were about eleven, but who was now fifty. In other words, it looked like a weathered child. It was real weird. That kid in those woods looked at up close was real weird.

And what happened in San Antonio, although I never saw him that closely, so many other people saw him that it was weird, too. Very weird. The whole situation. He was kind of like an interloper. And the two men who lived in the condo with him, I talked to them. They chatted with me a couple of times. They must have known incredible secrets. They were living with someone from another dimension or something. That really creeps me out to think they were right behind me.

You know, Sean, I wonder who the hell I am. I wonder who I am. If I went back across my life, I could spend hours telling you stories like this. There's many things that have happened that I've never even put into books. Just incredible. It's like I live with my two feet in two different worlds. And they're both equally real.

Q. I know what you're saying. If a voice were to ask me who I am, I think my answer would be "I don't know."

Strieber: Well, exactly. We're all in that position here, aren't we?

THE END

http://seancasteel.com/toronto.htm

Confessions of A Dangerous Mind

Hi Folks!

Still working on Part II to last post.

I inadvertently (synchronistically?) came across this interview in searching for other information.

I believe it must have taken place in 1997/98.

I am reposting it here. There are several points of interest that dovetail nicely with my last post that include my own personal take on this individual. If you read through it far enough, you will clearly discern these points of convergence for yourselves.

Enjoy.

-OSR

Whitley Strieber, Confirmation Transcript by Sean Casteel

What follows here is an interview with Whitley Strieber that features some material about his upcoming book "Confirmation: The Hard Evidence Of Aliens Among Us" (St. Martin's Press, 1998). While the new book will not be available to the general public until May 26, as a journalist I was given an advance galley and conducted an interview with Strieber over the phone in which we discussed the new book as well as what life is like for the man who wrote "Communion" after more than ten years in the harsh glare of an unbelieving media.

The following interview is also more of a verbatim and unedited transcript than is usually presented on this web site. While it functions for the most part like a standard Q. and A., it also has elements of the more conversational moments that happened while the interview was being conducted.

One more note: The evening after I had finished transcribing this interview, I came across the following sentence in Norman Mailer's 1997 bestseller "The Gospel According To The Son": "Who but Satan would wish to tell us that our way should be easy?" The fact that the path toward Salvation is a hard one is something Whitley Streiber knows only too well.

Q. "Confirmation" is a little different than the books that came before because you actually write very little about your own experiences but focus instead on other people and events. Why did you choose to write it that way? What purpose are you trying to achieve by this approach?

Strieber: The book is an attempt to present evidence that will lead to scientific interest in this field. And I can't do that by simply repeating my own story, because I don't have enough hard, physical evidence of my story.

Q. Your own status within the UFO community is rather unique because of your enormous book sales and visibility in the media. You also talk about the possibility that you were chosen as a propagandist by the Visitors. Would you care to comment further?

Strieber: A propagandist? I don't quite get that. I'm not understanding the question, Sean. In what sense did I say that?

Q. I think you used that exact word. A propagandist. Someone who's spreading-

Strieber: Oh, it's a speculation. I mean, obviously, with implants floating around, and we don't know what they are or how they work, we need to be really wary about all of this. And I include in that my own work. I think that until we understand what kind of technologies may or may not be impacting us, it's necessary to take a great deal of care. I must say that I don't feel in any sense that my mind is being influenced from the outside by anyone. But, at the same time, would a person under such influence feel that way? I can't answer that question.

I think that it behooves us clearly to take a serious look at that, though. I feel also that probably, because I'm so interested in taking a look at it, that I'm not under such influence. Because if I was under such influence, I probably would be saying that there was no reason to be concerned.

Q. Do you still feel as estranged from the UFO community as you once did?

Strieber: I'm very careful about anyone who is imprecise in their delivery of their ideas. I wouldn't say that I've ever been that estranged from the whole community, but there is an element in that community that does not function in a useful way. And yes, I would consider myself, if anything, even more estranged from them. I want nothing to do with them.

Q. Well, what element are you talking about?

Strieber: Well, I don't want to go into it, because it just causes me trouble. But I think it's obvious that if you look on the Internet, you'll see that it's full of web sites that are basically bunk. And I don't want anything to do with anybody who's dishing out bunk. And I think that you can find all kinds of false material on all of these web sites, on lots of web sites. All kinds of fake imagery and so forth. I've presently taken my web site down, and I'm redoing it. And one of the reasons I'm doing that is that every single piece of material that was sent to me over the Internet exclusively, with no photographic backup or anything like that, was fake. Without exception.

And at first, I was innocently putting this up on my web site because I thought that I could trust people. I'm sorry. I want to cut the cards. I don't trust anybody, and I'm very interested in watching my back. Because on the surface, there are a lot of people who are just amusing themselves with this and playing games. I'm not playing games. I'm not in here for fun. I'm very serious about this, and I want to see this moved into the mainstream scientific community. If UFO investigators can't handle it properly, then they shouldn't even be involved.

Q. Well, I know this is an unpleasant subject to discuss, but could you give us a historical overview of the persecutions suffered by you and your family since the publication of "Communion" in 1987?

Strieber: There will be something about that on my web site. But it would be fifty pages long. I can't. It would go on endlessly, and believe me, the UFO community is not solely responsible for that. Skeptics groups, religious groups, all kinds of different people have been identified as being part of that. Including just simply individuals who can allow themselves to think that I'm a liar and therefore I should be punished. And take out a little bit of their free-floating life resentment on me. You know? And it's really, really hard. Persecution is the norm in our lives. It's not exceptional. It's usual. And therefore I can't answer the question in just a paragraph.

Q. Well, if you want to answer at length, go ahead.

Strieber: No, I don't. It's too complicated.

Q. Well, I was particularly disturbed when I read about the incident where someone spat in your face at an airport.

Strieber: That's happened more than once. I only mentioned one of the incidents.

Q. What motivates that kind of-

Strieber: On that particular occasion, "Good Morning, America" put on a man who claimed I was a cult leader, like Jim Jones, and the spitting incident occurred the afternoon after that had been put on the air.

Q. Well, now that Heaven's Gate has happened, they know what a real cult's like. It would seem that they would have some sort of basis of comparison that would exonerate you and so forth. I remember when that-just to break off-I remember when that accusation first started. It was back in '89 when you were starting the Communion Groups around the country.

Strieber: Yeah. It was generated by a man who was later accused of computer hacking and ended up pleading no contest in federal court and was sentenced to a probationary sentence and a fine. And that was the end of it as far as I was concerned. He was completely discredited.

Q. Well, having suffered what you have, do you still feel the Visitor experience is worth what you have endured? Do you continue to feel you wouldn't trade it for anything?

Strieber: I do indeed. It is worth it. It's worth it for the reasons that I state toward the end of my book. That we have a chance to get out, to become a cosmic species. We have a chance to make a stab at "species immortality." Because once we have established ourselves, not only off-planet, but also outside of the solar system, then the species becomes effectively immortal, or lasts as long as the Universe potentially. I want us to have that chance, because there are many trillions of genetic combinations still available to mankind. We're just at the beginning of humanity, not at the end of it.

And I think that anyone who ends up, however peripherally, working towards that, is right on the aim of the whole species. And it's not a place that you should ever turn away from, no matter how difficult it is to be there.

Q. So, in other words, you're willing to endure the persecution for what you feel is the sake of a very positive future for the entire race?

Strieber: Yes, that's essentially correct. And I don't think, by the way, that there's ever going to be any mass landings. No one's going to give us this on a silver platter. If anyone offers us anything on a silver platter, they're evil and we've got to be very damn careful of what they have to offer. In this, all horses are Trojans, I think. What we can take, really take, from our own industry, effort and understanding is what's valuable to us. The rest of it, I don't care about.

Q. Well, this is another thing. This may be a little out of left-field to you, but do you think the Visitors themselves observe the persecutions you endure? And if so, what is their attitude about it? Do they ever mention it to you or comment on it?

Strieber: No, comments aren't something that happens in my experience. The number of words I've heard in my experience is very low. There's not a dialogue. Yeah, there has been some reaction at times. I think when we were driven out of the cabin in upstate New York, they reacted very negatively to that by putting on a rather amazing but very private display of response when it happened.

Q. They were unhappy for your sake, though, right?

Strieber: No, I think they were unhappy because they were losing a communications tool that had been very useful.

Q. But it had nothing to do with feeling sorry for your plight-

Strieber: I have no idea what their feelings were.

Q. In the new book, you call Dr. Roger Leir, Alice Leavy and Jesse Long heroes of a kind.

Strieber: They very definitely are.

Q. What does it take to be a hero in this field? Why are they heroes?

Strieber: Alice and Jesse are heroes because of the lives they've lived and their determination to present themselves to science on behalf of understanding. Roger is a hero because he put his career on the line in order to do something that is generally considered to be the farthest thing from professional responsibility. And he did that knowing what had already happened to John Mack in that regard. It took courage to do that-genuine human courage of the most basic kind.

Q. Well, can you briefly summarize what you're saying in the conclusion of the book about why the Visitors maintain secrecy about their presence for the sake of allowing us to develop independently of them?

Strieber: The premise that's based on comes from an article that's referenced. It was in "Science Magazine," the April 1977 issue. And essentially, it says that the great thing that we have to offer or would have potentially to offer to anyone with such extraordinary abilities as the Visitors display is "novelty." And if we end up as beggars on the Cosmic Street Corner, we will have nothing to offer them. We must not be given. We must take. We have to take. And I think that the Visitors will continue to make it as difficult for us as possible. They will do everything they can to defeat our efforts to get off-planet and to establish ourselves in a new way. And I think if they succeed, they will consider that a great tragedy.

Q. This is a very complex argument you're making here.

Strieber: Yes, it is.

Q. And I have a hard time-I want to discuss this, but I need to put it in some form where I can structure it as quotes from you.

Strieber: Well, the problem is that we're locked into this conceptual level of Good vs. Evil. Are they Good or Evil? Are they going to help us or not? And it is useless. We might as well be talking to a wall.

Q. You'll note I haven't asked any Good or Evil questions.

Strieber: Well, I know you haven't. But the thing that makes this so difficult to understand is how could they seem to be hostile to us when they're actually trying to help us? That's one of the things that hard to understand. But it becomes very obvious if you realize that what they're trying to do is make us strong. How do you make somebody strong? You make them exercise. You make them flex their muscles. You create, for example, questions that they can't bear and that they can't answer. That makes them strong. But just handing them star ship plans, like they do in the movie "Contact," that makes us weak. That hurts us. That's hostile.

So if you get Mr. Nice Guys coming and landing from outer space and giving us the key to the Universe, they're hostile. They're dangerous. Somebody who's tough and won't give us anything, but will be there exposing themselves so that we get the chance to take it, well, they're our friends. We have to do this on our own or not at all.

Q. You know, I was just now reminded-I don't want to cast it in moralistic terms-but the literal meaning of the name "Israel" is "he who strives with his Maker."

Strieber: That's absolutely correct. That's what we've got to do. We ARE Israel.

Q. Well, good. I think some kind of overtones about Moses and the Chosen People might also be why we're called Chosen Ones at times.

Strieber: Well, that could be.

Q. One concept that I've read about in your books and a lot of other books is people who have this sense of being "half-alien," whose sense of identity is sort of blurred?

Strieber: Yeah?

Q. With an indwelling alien personality? I have that experience a lot of times, you know. You start to realize they're thinking through you and you test it a little bit, you know? And logically, if you begin to test such a thing, you would totally switch off your own sense of identity. But that never quite happens. I mean, something is always there holding me as a conscious human entity in spite of all the spirits or whatever going through me at times.

Strieber: At the present time, we have no idea what all of that means. And one of the problems that is, I think, central to this is that we don't yet understand what the Visitors actually are. Even if they are aliens from another planet, there are things that happen to people that suggest that we still don't understand what they are. We don't understand what that may mean, and we don't know all of its significance. If they have something else to do with reality, then we're really at sea and we can expect all kinds of side-effects that are really difficult to understand or interpret. And feelings like those, I always say to people, keep it in question. Keep the question alive, because we really don't know what this means.

Q. Right. Well, another thing I experience, and this is the one that really frightens me-Katharina Wilson, the abductee, sent me some literature that talked about this same problem. You start to feel a "unique sense of non-existence." Like you're not real, the Universe is not real, you're staring at your face in the mirror and still you're not real.

Strieber: These high-level disassociative conditions are related to stress of different kinds. And in this particular case, you're dealing with stress of a sort that we really don't have much experience with at all. And side-effects of this kind of stress are going to be unusual. I think you're looking there at a side-effect that's unusual of a certain type of stress.

Q. It's almost as if, if you moved an inch further, you'd crack catatonic or something. You'd cease to be there at all.

Strieber: It's interesting that the close encounter experience in general does not harm people. I've had quite a number of cases of people who have claimed to have been injured in various ways.

Q. It's not necessarily an injury. It's just the strangeness-

Strieber: Yeah, well let me finish-including psychologically and this, that and the other thing. And what's been fascinating about this is when I've investigated these cases I've generally found that the people were fundamentalist Christians who were out in the community spreading terror for religious reasons. I think that if you scratch the surface of people who have real alien terror tales to tell, you find very often that those people are actually propagandists. That isn't to say that the experience is not difficult. I don't want to put a "happy talk" light on it, because it's very inappropriate to do that.

The experience is difficult, and it will get more difficult. The more public the Visitors become, the harder this is going to be. Until eventually it will get to the point, if it continues to move in that direction, that the people closest to it will all begin to have reactions like the ones you described. Which seem superficially harmless if strange. But actually, if they continue to intensify, you very quickly get into areas where there's a psychotic level of disassociation going on.

And what will happen under those circumstances is that the average man will be scared to death and the people close to the experience will be, as you say, catatonic. That could easily occur. We have to be prepared for that. And there is a way to meet it. The Visitors have always directed my attention to meditation. I find that many of the people who are most capable of handling the situation are people who meditate, who can take their attention out of their mind and simply place it on their body. And you then find relief because, as I mention in the book, the conflicting need of their consciousness and our consciousness to form the stuff of reality into shapes we understand leads the ego to feel as if it's being annihilated when you're close to that.

Q. Exactly.

Strieber: And you can end that by simply taking your attention outside of your mind and outside of your ego. And everything relaxes immediately and it all becomes very ordinary. What seemed to be monsters a moment before become a bunch of very tired, little creatures that seem to be struggling with something that they find difficult, at times boring, and very sad.

Q. I do want to say, just for the sake of the record, that I'm not a fundamentalist Christian. Streiber: Oh, I know you're not.

Q. I'm a liberal Christian. I believe the Visitors are basically good.

Strieber: Did you get a copy of Monsignor Valducci's interview that's going to be in the book?

Q. No.

Strieber: It didn't go out with the galleys. I guess it came in too late. Well, at the end of the book, there's going to be an interview with a prelate from the Vatican, Monsignor Corado Valducci which I think represents the beginnings of possible Church policy about the whole subject. Monsignor Valducci is a specialist in demonology, and in his interview he states very clearly that that is not what this is about.

Q. Ah, good to hear.

Strieber: Yeah, it's good to hear. Michael Hesseman got the interview and published it in his magazine in Germany. And then I read it and called Michael and Monsignor Valducci and he was kind enough to let me use it in my book.

Q. I want to ask you one more question, then can we talk a little bit off the record? Streiber: Yeah.

Q. This is the standard last question I've always used. Is there anything you wish to add? Is there some question I haven't asked or some kind of final statement you'd like to make?

Strieber: Well, what I want to add is that the scientific community can address this in a rational way. There are already instruments and techniques that would allow us to deal with this scientifically at every level and answer some of the questions that now surround it. Like the basic question, is it real or is it not? The scientific community can address that question and answer it now. If they do not do so, then it is a major failure of the human intellect. And it could be an extremely serious one. Because I guarantee you over the next fifty years there are going to be environmental disruptions of such a serious nature that our ability to address energy to an issue like this may become very limited.

Q. Well, another thing you say about the scientific community, and I also read this in Fowler's book as well, is the idea that we're at a point where established science is still rejecting all this information, but still you can sort of foresee a kind of transition where it does become gradually accepted.

Strieber: Yeah, well Peter Straub (?) is the perfect example, right at the beginning of the book. I mean, there's a whole group of very qualified scientists behind him who are trying to change things. And who do feel that there's something here that's worth looking into. So, yeah, I think that it is changing. But slowly.

Q. Well, that's also good to know. This is another thing off the record. But I'm going to be interviewing Rio D'Angelo pretty soon. He was the lone survivor of Heaven's Gate.

Strieber: Oh, yeah?

Q. He's the guy who left the group about a month before who they sent the video tape to and so forth?

Strieber: Yeah?

Q. He's starting to do a media "coming out" kind of thing. He's going to be on Larry King on Thursday. [D'Angelo's appearance was later canceled.] And a publicist working for him sent me a press release and everything.

Strieber: Yeah?

Q. So I was going to ask you, what questions would you ask Rio D'Angelo if you were going to talk to him? I guess I'm asking for help with my homework or something. My father was saying the idea's not to look back at what happened, but what kind of forward-looking-type questions could we ask?

Strieber: I have no idea what to think about that. I feel that there's a massive scientific failure, a failure of the scientific imagination, that led to a situation where people could easily turn this whole thing into a lot of superstition. And I think it's terribly unfortunate. It's sad. It is just pitiful and sad and I don't know what to think of this except that probably this man will only be used to harm the culture even more. Because I think that I can't imagine that there would be any purpose in bringing him out except to warn people away from dealing with the UFO issues in any way.

Q. I also talked to Elaine Pagels about this subject last year. You're familiar with her?

Strieber: Yeah, sure.

Q. And she was saying that what she felt had caused it was the suppression in the society as a whole, the repression in our society of religious impulses. The idea of looking outside yourself to a higher, loving intelligence-

Strieber: It's interesting that I think of it as being caused by the repression of scientific knowledge. I think that if science had addressed this thing meaningfully from the beginning, there wouldn't be a lot of superstition floating around. I would disagree with Elaine Pagels. Because she comes from the viewpoint that there's nothing real to it. That it is essentially a form of a misdirected religious impulse. But the problem is that these people can see the evidence that's hanging around out there, and there's a substantial enough amount of it to add credence to almost any claim that anyone wishes to make about it if they have a sufficiently charismatic or authoritative manner.

So the result is that you get these people-and it's not just the Heaven's Gate cult. There's lots of cults and people out there who are spreading just absolute bunkum stories. Like everyone assumes there are little gray visitors here from Zeta Reticuli. What? How did we come to that? We came to that through a lot of very vague, hypnotized recall and examining star maps that may or may not have had some sort of relevance to the real world. And it became engraved in stone. But it's nothing. It's fantasy. It's superstition. And because the scientific community never deals with this issue in a meaningful way, factual material turns into fantasy and superstition and you have things like Heaven's Gate.

We, the UFO community, will be blamed for Heaven's Gate. The scientific community is actually to blame.

Q. Well, I've also heard other people say that they doubt there were any even real abductees among them. None of them had ever sighted a ship or anything. Their faith was totally blind and uneducated.

Strieber: I feel this: That the way to deal with the abductee situation is that you start by working with abductees who have implants. We can find those people easily enough. They're readily available. I'm one of them. And you work with those people, and what you do is, you apply instruments to them that will enable us to tell whether or not the memories they're describing actually evolved out of physical experience and what general kinds of physical experiences those were. That's how you begin with this. But having somebody simply say that they're an abductee isn't enough. And once you've established some really valid guidelines, then the next step is to extend the same process into larger numbers of witnesses. Because, you know, as I demonstrate in the book, we can use the PET scanning machine potentially to determine whether or not the memories people are describing have got reference to physical reality or if they were just dreamed up. Like for example, a person, if they say they saw a huge light, and we see that the part of the memory, the part of the brain that processes optical events is also excited along with the hippocampus while they're describing this, then we know they did see such a light. The same is true if they say they saw a figure. We can make enormous strides in this. All we need to do is to get the scientists involved with using this equipment to address the issue. This is a great problem. I don't have the answer to it right now. I know some of these scientists. I know five or six of them. To a man, they are not willing to even allow an abductee into their laboratory, as things stand right now.

Q. I can quote you on all this stuff, right?

Strieber: Yeah, absolutely. Quote me on all of it.

Q. Okay, good. Have you read David Jacobs' book "The Threat" by any chance?

Strieber: Yes.

Q. And his conclusion is obviously exactly the opposite of yours.

Strieber: His aren't the opposite of mine. I don't know whether his conclusion is correct or incorrect, because there's no hard data. It's all hypnotized recall. That's what he bases his entire hypothesis on. As far as I'm concerned, until we have a foundation in hard, physical evidence, we're pouring from the empty into the void. We have no idea what any of this may mean.

Q. Well, the thing I was going to say was just the opposite was the fact that he sees a colonization by the aliens as what it's all leading to-

Strieber: What aliens? Are there any aliens here?

Q. Well, let me finish. He's sees a colonization by whoever is what's going to happen, and meanwhile you see that we go out into the solar system out there without their interference. Do you see what I'm saying?

Strieber: Yes. I wonder who's right?

Q. Me, too.

Strieber: Well, so far, we've made absolutely no efforts whatsoever to determine whether or not anything like that is true. And I'm very sorry to hear about this Heaven's Gate survivor going out in public, because it means to me that somebody has gotten to him who is putting him out there in order to harm this community. I can't imagine any other reason for it. And I'm sure that if you look back behind the scenes, you will find again the fundamentalist Christian community and the conservative right wing doing it.

Q. Well, that's interesting. And by the way, he's going to be on Larry King on Thursday if you're interested in seeing what he does have to say.

Strieber: Yeah, I am interested, and I'll look at it. And I can tell you this: that he will be on Larry King on Thursday, and the odds are I will not be on Larry King for this book. That we are going to be silenced. "The Today Show" has already passed on this book. I think that the King show will pass on it. I think everyone's going to pass on it. And that I will continue to be talking just to "the convinced." That our voice is going to be silenced in the media.

Q. Preaching to the choir or whatever.

Strieber: Yeah, exactly. That's what's going to happen. I will not gain access to the general community outside-it'll be a miracle if I get any national radio or television. National television, anyway. I'll get it on the radio from Art Bell. But I will not I think get any national television. And here we have a situation where you have highly qualified scientists saying that they were given physical objects from abductees that they could not explain scientifically, and the public will not be given that information. Instead the public will be given information that this is all very evil and you're to stay away from it, otherwise your children might commit suicide.

And I will tell you, if there is a Satan, he's working hard in this to make sure that we stay scared and confused and we stay away from it. Because this is the direction of our salvation. If we can get ourselves off of this planet, we're going to survive. If we cannot, we're going to go extinct. And the next century will tell the tale.

Q. It's weird. I totally agree with what you're saying that it's maybe the Devil himself who's trying to repress all this-

Strieber: It's so powerful. The engine of repression is so overwhelming powerful and getting stronger by the day. It's much stronger than it was ten years ago, make no mistake. People aren't as derisive now, but this engine of repression is really well organized in the media now. It's much better than it was before.

Q. The only threatening letter that I have ever received in all my years of covering UFOs came last year by e-mail. And the person's return e-mail address was some kind of Satanist-type address, like dot, dot, dot, 666 or whatever. Where he was obviously flaunting himself as a devil. And he said he had been to my web site and I had darn well better quit covering this subject or else. Sort of a veiled threat like that.

Strieber: That was just probably some jerk trying to-

Q. I'm sure it was some jerk, but it's a jerk who believes himself a devil, who has grandiose ideas about being a devil and so forth. So I called my Internet provider, and they put a block on my e-mail so he couldn't e-mail me again. But my point in telling you this is that I totally agree with you that it's the Devil who wants to repress-

Strieber: (Laughing) You think you got an e-mail from the Devil?

Q. No, not from the Devil himself, but from one of his people, one of his minions.

Strieber: Well, who knows? I don't know. I don't think it would be that obvious, Sean.

Q. I share your mistrust about the media.

Strieber: I am just sick about it. I'm SICK about it. I think it's not only the media, but science. I think that this book will be absolutely useless. That it will not change the scientific community one iota. That it will not change the media. That the media can't even read the book between the covers. They can't even see what's in it. And it's horrifying to be in a situation like this. It's literally like living in a country of the blind and being able to see. That makes you a dangerous, hated revolutionary. It's like going back to the Middle Ages and ending up in a trial by the Inquisition where nothing you say can save you. Where everything you say is taken to be a confession of guilt, and so is your silence. It's terrifying.

Q. I actually took a course in that, believe it or not, called the History of European Witchcraft and It's Persecution.

Strieber: Ah, it's terrifying, because it's the same process. You know, every time I walk down a street, I wait to see if this will be the time. Because you think you're exposed, Sean. Can you imagine how exposed I am? That there are people being told to throw stones, that we ought to be stoned to death? By a powerful national leader? And then I have to walk out into the street after that? And the public knows what I look like, but I have no idea of who they are and how to tell one from another? Because believe me, if they start stoning us to death, I'm the first person who's going to be hit with the stones. Because I'm the most visible.

Q. I realize that. And I also realize that my suffering in those terms is very minimal compared to yours and a lot of other people's.

Strieber: And I have in addition all of the jealousy and hatred from within the UFO community because of my high public profile that they all envy.

Q. Right.

Strieber: So I'm a man with almost no friends. I am outside, and there's nobody to support me. Or few people. I mean, there are some, but there are a large number of people who will be passive or simply sit on their hands if I get into any trouble. And believe me, if the worst came to the worst, and one of Pat Robertson's minions finally does kill me, a large number of people in the UFO community will be very happy to see that. They'll feel like an obstacle has been removed to their own success. Then they will also see the community whither away afterwards because there isn't anyone else out there who's really trying to take this and carry it to the scientific community in a very definite, clear way. It just isn't being done. It should have been done a long time ago, but instead what's happened is that MUFON, which sort of arises out of the old NICAP group, has got what looks like a scientific patina to it, but there's a lack of depth in terms of the credentials and reputations of many of the people who have scientific degrees who are in MUFON. But the main problem is that they don't reference their interest in UFOs into the technical and scientific journals at all. So the result is, when a scientist publishes on this subject, they publish in "The MUFON Journal" instead of in "Science" or "Nature." And that's very unfortunate.

Q. Well, I understand what you're saying there also.

Strieber: Listen, I've got to cut it short because we've got stuff to do.

Q. Well, thanks for talking to me. I certainly appreciate it. Good luck to both of us in our struggle, I guess.

Strieber: Okay, great.

Q. Okay, bye.

Strieber: Bye.

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